DESIGN REVIEW BOARD MEETING MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING – TUESDAY, February 8, 2005
SIMSBURY TOWN OFFICES - 5:30 P.M – MAIN MEETING ROOM
CALL TO ORDER
Emil Dahlquist, Chairman, called the Meeting of the Design and Review Board to order at 5: 30 PM in the Main Meeting Room of the Simsbury Town Offices. The following members were present: Linda Kennedy, John Stewart, Charles Stephenson, Kevin Gray, William Gardner, Anthony Drapelick, John Carroll, Mark Naccarato.
APPOINTMENT OF ALTERNATES
Mr. Stephenson was appointed to serve for Mr. Schoenhardt.
PRESENTATION, DISCUSSION, AND POSSIBLE VOTE
a. Application of Steven Walker, Grove Capital, LLC, Owner, Daniel Brennan, Agent, for signage for the Starbucks Coffee to be located on property at the Simsbury Town Shops, 930 Hopmeadow Street.
Mr. Steven Walker introduced Mr. Dan Shallot, Starbucks representative, to the board, and handed out samples of the proposed Starbucks signs to the board.
The three proposed signs as per Starbucks are as follows:
a) A gold rimmed wooden sign mounted to the fascia of the building. The sign is 30 square feet, 18 feet long, twenty feet wide, and the letters are twelve inches in height. 50-watt metal halide gooseneck lights will light the sign.
b) A 24-inch illuminated pendant logo disk that hangs inside of the store.
c) A wooden freestanding monument sign to be mounted at the same location as the current monument sign. The sign will be lit externally by two quartz lights on either side.
Mr. Shallot stated that Starbucks surveyed the signs around town to try and fit their sign to town standards. He added that Starbucks has wanted to get into Simsbury’s market for a while, and he commended Mr. Navarro, and Mr. Walker in helping them get here.
Chairman Dahlquist asked if the height of the monument sign is eleven feet. Mr. Walker stated yes, and added that when he spoke with Conservation Officer Beach, it was stated that based on regulations the height of the sign from the top could be a maximum of ten feet.
Mr. Gardner asked questions concerning the layout of the building.
Mr. Stephenson said that the freestanding sign is over-scaled for the building and the location. He suggested bringing down the scale of the sign, noting that the 11-foot height comes well above the fascia board of the first floor and is a little bit above where the roof intersect in. He suggested that the sign be no more than nine feet tall at the top, which would put the cross piece in the vicinity of the fascia board off of the porch. He also suggested reducing the inside round pendant logo of the sign by to 36 inches. Mr. Stewart agreed with Mr. Stephenson.
Mr. Walker noted that they based the size of the Starbucks sign on the Prudential sign. Mr. Stephenson and Mr. Gardner pointed out that the Prudential sign is bigger because the building is bigger in scale. There was discussion as to the scale. Mr. Shallot said that scaling down the sign from 42-36 inches would not be a problem for the company they want to comply with town standards.
Chairman Dahlquist added that the town has had comments from the public about signs being too large, and given the location of the sign to the road and sidewalk, sign scale needs to be discussed.
Chairman Dahlquist asked about landscaping. Mr. Walker explained that the whole site will be landscaped, and new sidewalks put in.
Ms. Kennedy asked about the inside pendant sign. Mr. Shallot said that it is internally lit. Chairman Dahlquist stated that would be an issue for the zoning commission, adding that they might take exception to it.
The board discussed the fascia-mounted sign. Mr. Stephenson said that it appears to be drawn to scale. Mr. Stewart noted that the panel of the fascia sign will be 18 feet long, whereas in the drawing it is shown as 15 feet. Also the letters were drawn at 10 inches, but will be in reality be 12 inches in height.
Mr. Gray asked what the plans are for the other tenant signs, and if there would be another front monument sign for them. Mr. Walker explained that in about four months time a sign package would be put together for the other tenant signs. The signs are to be constructed with same a material, and Grove Capital would be responsible for building the sign bands so that they are identical. He stated that there would be small sign at each of the entrances, for the other tenants. He showed on the drawings where they would put them. There will be no other signs on the site other than the Starbucks front monument sign.
Mr. Gray asked about having the house number on the building, considering that it is needed for fire safety and identification reasons. Mr. Walker mentioned that he has been in touch with the Fire Marshall concerning this. Chairman Dahlquist noted that the number could be put on the front door.
Ms. Kennedy asked if they would come back for the landscaping and sidewalk application.
Chairman Dahlquist answered that the board has not gotten any site plan. Mr. Walker stated that he was under the impression that the landscaping was approved about 6-7 months ago, but at that time landscaping around the front sign was not discussed.
Mr. Naccarato stated that the larger size of the fascia sign would be appropriate, but it should be no larger than it is indicated on the elevation. He stated that there are two signs of identification. Mr. Walker explained they that the reason for the fascia sign is so people will be able to see the actual Starbucks name, as opposed to the having the logo monument style sign out in front.
Chairman Dahlquist said that the issue is the height of the fascia. There was a discussion about the scale and dimension about the fascia sign. Mr. Stephenson agreed with Mr. Naccarato’s idea.
Mr. Nacarrato said that the internally lit logo sets a precedent. Mr. Stephenson added that a non-internally lit disk could be installed with a ceiling recessed fixture to illuminate it. Mr. Naccarato said that would tone it down. Mr. Gardner said that the zoning commission should be the ones to decide this aspect.
Motion
Mr. Stephenson motioned to accept the application as proposed with modifications.
The height on the exterior sign should be reduced from 11 feet to nine feet, overall height of the pole. The Starbucks coffee disk/sign itself be reduced from 42-inch diameter to a maximum of 36-inch in diameter.
It is understood that the exterior lighting for the exterior sign will be very small-scale lighting of a similar look and mounted in a similar fashion to that which currently exists over the Prudential sign adjacent to this site.
The board suggests that the building mounted sign be constructed as illustrated on drawing A1 dated 1/07/05. It is not to exceed fifteen feet in length, maintain its’ current twenty inches in height for the backer board, and the letters themselves be no taller than ten inch letters.
It is understood that the lighting shall be executed as illustrated on the small 8.5”x11” drawing prepared by Ace Signs. The lighting used will be gooseneck lamps, with metal halide bulbs, and no more than four lamps will be located along the top of the sign for illumination purposes.
Mr. Gardner seconded with all in favor.
Chairman Dahlquist made a design note.
The board recommended incorporating a building location number perhaps around the front entrance on the Hopmeadow Street elevation. The twenty four-inch double-faced illuminated logo inside the building was not part of the review.
INFORMAL PRESENTATION
a. Rich Correia on the Fiddler’s green project-unified sign plan. (continued from 1/25/05 meeting)
Mr. Rich Correia and representatives of Design FX were present. He handed out the site plan to the board, stating that they took the board’s comments into consideration concerning the freestanding signs.
The Hopmeadow sign has been reduced in height. This sign will be used for the restaurants and retailers located around the back. On the drawings there are two options, the first, reducing the sign 20%, and the second, reducing it by 10 %. It was expressed that the applicant prefers reducing the sign by 10%, option 1. The reasoning for this is that the town said a 10- foot sign along Hopmeadow is within regulations, and the applicant believes it will give the tenants more visibility. There was a discussion surrounding this idea. The Hopmeadow street sign is located on state property, and Mr. Correia is aware of this and is dealing with it. Chairman Dahlquist noted that zoning has final approval but that Design review’s task is to look at this from a design element.
The Wilcox Street sign’s 14-foot pole is too big and hits people as they are walking by. Mr. Correia proposes getting rid of the crab tree currently on the site and replacing it with the sign, Some trees will be planted in place of the sign’s former location It was explained that each panel is eight inches and the letters are four inches. This sign will be used for the restaurants/retailers located to the front of the property.
Chairman Dahlquist expressed that the sign it acts as a detriment to the building.
The Railroad Street sign will have the same look and dimensions as the Wilcox Street sign, except with different tenant names listed. This sign will be used for the office tenants who do not have any signage on either Hopmeadow or Wilcox street signs. Mr. Correia explained that if the sign were to be 10 feet in height, the bottom tenant businesses would lose their site lines. Also, when the time comes for landscape maintenance, the lower signs will bear the brunt of careless landscaping.
Mr. Stewart stated that he walked the property, he expressed that the property needs to have signage that is appropriate to it. Mr. Correia stated that per the bylaws they could have more much more signage on the property, but he is against this, adding that it would spoil the look of the building.
Mr. Naccarato expressed that the building’s footprint is not a big mass, it reads as separate buildings. He agrees with Mr. Stewart in that if the signs go any smaller, they will be of little value. He added that the large Fiddlers Green Sign is very large and that perhaps isn’t serving much purpose. Mr. Correia stated that he wanted to have just Fiddler’s Green as the only sign, as the identifiable sign, much like the Simsbury Commons sign.
It was expressed that the Fiddlers Green sign is a very stylized design element which ads to the property.
Chairman Dahlquist spoke about the issue of grandfathering of signs. He expressed that the there are two issues to think about, the design of the sign and the scale of it.
Mr. Drapelick asked whether the 14 feet signs already there are grandfathered. Chairman Dahlquist said that unless the physical appearance of the sign changes, applicants do not have to come in with a new sign package.
Mr. Stephenson expressed that the he is appreciative of how the project has been presented. It is rare that the board gets drawings of the detail and clarity presented, which in addition show the signs at scale. With respect to the size, he disagrees with Mr. Naccarato and he is comfortable with their current height. He added that he understands Chairman Dahlquist concerns regarding grandfathering issues, but wants to remind the board that the applicant has come before the board with a very handsome, stylish, and carefully thought out plan.
In response Chairman Dahlquist expressed that the design and scale be considered as two separate issues.
Mr. Carroll stated agreed with Mr. Stephenson, that the signs are appropriate in this setting. He added that the 14-foot signs should be put into context with the structure and the ridgelines and the fact that the land slopes. The 10 foot sign in the front and the 14-foot sign on Hopmeadow are visually almost the same height.
Mr. Gray also agreed with Mr. Carroll and Mr. Stephenson’s responses. The sign on Railroad Street does not have much value currently, but hopefully with the new signage will improve this. The Wilcox sign is far enough away from the building, and the people will accept it.
He added that the signs can not all be seen at the same time.
Motion
A motion was made by Mr. Gardner to convert the application from an informal presentation to a formal presentation. It was seconded by Ms. Kennedy with all in favor.
Motion
Mr. Stewart motioned to approve the application with the following stipulations.
The board accepts option two, the ten foot in height sign for the Hopmeadow Street location.
The board accepts option one, the fourteen feet in height signs for Wilcox and Railroad Street on drawings dated 1/03/05. It is understood that lighting, 75-watt metal halides, will be ground lit. The signs mounted on the building facade, and the tavern style signs are also accepted as discussed and presented on drawings dated 1/03/05.
Ms. Kennedy seconded. All in favor, with Mr. Naccarato opposed.
Chairman Dahlquist made a design note.
The board all acknowledges that the entire sign package/presentation quality was of the highest quality, and extraordinarily well done. The issues discussed were the sign height, but the board felt comfortable with the presentation as submitted. The lighting will be metal halide, and the bracketed signs will have 50-watt mini quartz lights to light it from above.
b. PJ Louis, Regional Sales Manager, William Raveis Real Estate, site plan amendment to review for a sign for William Raveis Real Estate on property located at 961 Hopmeadow Street.
Mr. PJ Louis was present to discuss the application. Raveis wants to move the sign about 15 steps feet from the present location, closer to their walkway. The sign’s colors, height, and orientation will be kept the same.
Chairman Dahlquist expressed that the Board would like to see a site location plan along with photographs of the site. Mr. Stewart and Mr. Gray asked that a landscaping and lighting plan also be obtained. Mr. Louis stated that he would obtain these for the next meeting.
Mr. Louis noted that no landscaping will be done, besides reseeding the lawn, and that the sign will not be illuminated.
Mr. Stewart disclosed that the town requires all monument signs to have landscaping, whether they have lighting or not. He asked that for the next meeting, Mr. Louis have a site plan drawing showing what the site will look like afterwards.
No motion. Application to be carried over to the next meeting.
c. Steven Walker, Grove Capital, on windows, siding, and roofing samples for 930 Hopmeadow Street project.
Mr. Walker showed samples of the materials to be used for the project. He stated that the shingles, windows, and shutters are in disrepair and need to be replaced. They propose using hardy plank (clapboard) for the siding, PVC (Azek) for the trim, painted white. Install either Trimline or Pella manufactured windows.
The shutters will be fabricated of black plastic. The roof will be black architectural grade. The building will be painted white.
There was a discussion regarding the aspects of the materials. Chairman Dahlquist noted that the hardy plank is good material. Mr. Stephenson said that the type of design mullion is very acceptable.
Mr. Walker asked if the Zoning board must approve the materials. Chairman Dahlquist said no.
Mr. Naccarato asked about the buildings’ gutters and downspouts. Mr. Walker said that in order to make them disappear, they are to be replaced with the same material in a white color.
Motion
Mr. Stephenson motioned to approve the shingles, trim, siding, shutter, and window materials presented for use on the building. The two windows being considered, Pella, and Trimline, both have exterior applied mullions to the glass, and it is the understanding that the layout of the mullions will attempt to match the current configuration of the existing windows. The roof shingles will be GAF timberline architectural grade black, the shutters will be plastic vinyl fixed to the siding, the siding will be a hardy plank clapboard matching existing, all trim will be the AZEK trim, gutters and down spouts will be white aluminum material.
Mr. Gardner seconded, with all in favor.
DISCUSSION
None
CORRESPONDENCE
None
STAFF REPORTS
None
APPROVAL OF MINUTES of January 25, 2005
Mr. Drapelick motioned to approve the minutes of January 25, 2005.
Ms. Kennedy seconded. All in favor, with Mr. Naccarato, Mr. Gardner, and Mr. Stephenson abstaining.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Gardner motioned to adjourn the meeting at 7 PM.
Ms. Kennedy seconded with all in favor.
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