09/22/2020 Planning Commission Minutes

Subject to Approval

PLANNING COMMISSION-MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, September 22nd, 2020
The public hearing was web-based on Zoom at https://zoom.us/j/2574297243
Meeting ID: 257 429 7243

I. CALL TO ORDER - Chairman Rice called the meeting to order at 7:03pm.

1. Pledge of Allegiance

II. ROLL CALL

1. Appointment of Alternatives: Richard Cortes and Julie Eaton promoted to full voting member.

Present: Michael Glidden, William Rice, Erin Leavitt-Smith, Julie Eaton, Alan Needham, Richard Cortes, Craig MacCormac, David Blume

Absent: Holy Beum

David Blume joined the meeting late and was already replaced by the appointment of an alternative.

III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of the TUESDAY September 8th, 2020 regular meetings

• Mr. Needham lead the minute review. Mr. Needham noted that on Line 16 and 17 it reflects that he attended the meeting twice; it should be removed to only have his name once so remove it from line 17. Ms. Leavitt-Smith noted that on line 24 her name is spelled wrong and there needs to be an A in Leavitt. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated line 85 change the word slides to pages. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked for the wording to be revised on line 125. Mr. Glidden asked for it to say the town cannot develop a regulation specific to individuals that are receiving mortgage assistance, although they are given points towards the 10%. Ms. Eaton stated line 170 should state there instead of they. Ms. Leavitt-Smithasked to remove the word have from line 313. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated the motion is written twice on two separate lines so line 328 should be deleted in its entirety.

• Ms. Leavitt-Smith made a motion to approve the minutes as amended. Mr. Needham seconded the motion.

MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, one abstention Craig MacCormac (5-0-1).

IV. Commission Workshop

1. Affordable Housing Plan

• Chairman Rice noted Mr. Glidden uploaded a second draft from the comments/revisions that were made from the last two meetings. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked to go over the edited document for this meeting. Chairman Rice stated he hasn’t had a chance to read through it. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked if the Commission can all do that together however, ChairmanRice stated there was a couple other things he would like to discuss first. He stated they had reached the point where they were to brainstorm ideas for affordable housing and had asked the Commission members to do some of their own brainstorming on how to increase the number of affordable housing units in town, before this meeting. Chairman Rice stated he has an idea that may raise some eyebrows. He said in thinking about how to raise the number of affordable units in town is there is a way to utilize the town owned open space for conversion to affordable housing units. Ms. Eaton confirmed that was something she had thought about also. Mr. Needham stated his only issue is that he doesn’t want to have a part of town that is reserved for only the new people in town but stated he does feel it should be considered. Mr. Needham asked Mr. Glidden about the parking lot they were going to buy from the state. Mr. Glidden stated they have an option to purchase that still with the state for $1.00 as long as it is for town purposes, if however, they want to purchase it and sell it to a developer they would have to pay $700,000.00. Mr. Needham stated that could be an affordable housing site and ideal with less transportation issues and closer to public transportation. Mr. Needham agreed with ChairmanRice’s overall idea. Chairman Rice stated he was really testing the waters about considering town owned open spaces and noted he isn’t sure if it is even legal as he does know that some of the open space may be deed restricted but wanted to present it to the Commission as there may be other parcels in town owner without any restrictions. When asked by Ms. Leavitt-Smith he denied having specific open space in mind. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated she would be cautious about giving away any open space until it is well vetted. She stated she likes the idea of the parking lot but stated a lot of people have put effort into preservingcertain open space in town so she would like to know which parcel before she would agree to it. She stated she doesn’t like the wording open space. Mr. Needham stated it is just something to consider right now butMs. Leavitt-Smith disagreed stating they may like it but she doesn’t and that is her opinion. She asked to go on record that she is a little uncomfortable with this idea of using open space and she would want to know what specific parcel they are talking about. Chairman Rice stated he is just trying to explore different opportunities. Mr. Needham stated he feels it is something to consider as he doesn’t know if he would be completely in favor either at this point.Mr. Leavitt-Smith stated if they knew about specific parcels, she may consider it. Chairman Rice stated his desire is to accelerate the number of affordable units compared to the mechanisms that are in place now. He stated he would be in favor of an entire development meeting the criteria for affordable housing even though he isn’t sure how to convince a developer to do that or if it is economically feasible. He further explained that taking 10 or 15% of a development doesn’t make mathematically sense. Chairman Rice asked how do they get big chunks without all the negatives that come along with what people perceive to be low income housing as he isn’t advocating that they do something like that. Hetold the Commission that the object is to increase the number of affordable housing while also to preserve open space and isn’t saying they can’t happen together. He stated he would love to know which one is more important and told Ms. Leavitt-Smith he understands that depending on which open space they are talking about; the open space would trump affordable housing for her. Mr. Needham asked ChairmanRice if he means increase affordable housing by definition of 8-30g or actual affordable housing for the general public. Chairman rice stated he cannot convince himself that anything greater than 10% would be of particular value just for the legislative standpoint and stated he is talking about meeting the standard that is already there that is defined by 8-30g. He stated they are at about 4.75% right now and if they need to get to 10% he suggested increasing by 1% a year for 6 years. Ms. Eaton voiced that was pretty bold. Mr. MacCormac asked how many units per year would that be, Ms. Eaton answered stating about 90 units. Chairman Rice agreed. Mr. Needham stated this would be a project where the developer builds nothing but affordable units. Chairman Rice answered by stating or multiple projects. Mr. Needham asked how will this work for a developer to make any money selling 90 units for 6 years in a row below market rate and Mr. MacCormac stated it is a hard sell. He reported that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Chairman Rice stated that was his clinical approach to making the numbers work. He then asked for other suggestions. Ms. Eaton stated she took a more conservative approach. She provided her thought of an incremental improvement by increasing the number of units in town and seek to have an increase of 90 units over the next 5 years. Mr. Needham stated this is almost impossible because someone would have to build a whole bunch of units under market rate and nothing else. Chairman Rice asked Mr. Glidden what the repercussion would be for not reaching the 10% Mr. Glidden stated the only repercussion of not reaching 10% would be a 8-30g appeal, Mr. Needham stated that would mean they would sell a lot of above market value units on a small lot, only 30%. Ms. Eaton stated then they can just make their regulations greater that 30% and make incremental improvements. Mr. Needham stated they need some kind of goal. Mr. MacCormac asked ChairmanRice how including the open space would help here. Chairman rice stated his thought is that there is not a lot of large parcels remaining to be developed so he thought of other undeveloped areas and open space came to mind. Mr. Needham asked how much the land cost would be for developers if it was open space and then answered himself stating it wouldn’t cost them anything because they wouldn’t have to pay for the land. Ms. Eaton stated the reason why she thought her Chairman Rice’s was a good idea was because on page 38 of the POCD they talk about the open land and about understanding town owned parcels that may not contribute to a town owned open space so those could be spread across town so it isn’t like you are creating an isolate path but it doesn’t get to a bus unit but it helps explore spreading out affordable units in town. Chairman Rice stated it will be met with a lot of resistance as a lot of people have spent a lot of effort in preserving open space. He explained that is why he is talking about town owned open space as opposed to land trust, not preserved protected land. Mr. Glidden asked ChairmanRice if he wants to take it one step further to look at all town owned property and not just open space. Chairman Rice stated he will amend his suggestion to state all town owned propertyincluding open space. Mr. Glidden informed the Commission that open space that was purchased with state funds would be off limits. Mr. Cortes asked if the town would have to be the developer and hire a builder. Mr. Glidden stated with the state lots, if the town is not the developer then they have a price they would have to pay to have it developed. Mr. Glidden stated parcels with no strings attached, the town could RFQ a potential development and have someone else do the development of the parcel and get it on a reduced price from the town.Mr. Glidden stated it changes the developer’s portfolio once you take the real estate cost out of it. Mr. Glidden further stated he can look around at parcels. He went on to report that state lots will have to be paid for by the town to the state before it can be handed off to a developer. Mr. Cortes stated there is infrastructure under those lots that have to be moved as well which he believes are electrical lines so that would be another cost as well. Mr. Glidden answered stating it is fiber optics. Chairman Rice stated he feels that they should’t get caught up the details now. He spoke about having two good suggestions; town owned properties, putting deed restrictions on tax sale properties Chairman Rice admitted his plan isn’t achievable due to the high numbers and feels they could consider something more realistic but did state this objective should be put into the plan so they can have something measurable to see if it is successful. Chairman Rice asked Ms. Eaton to repeat her suggestion that she provided to the Commission earlier. Ms. Eaton stated, to strive for incremental improvements in an increase of affordable housing in town, seek to increase 1% approximately 90 units over the next 5 years. ChairmanRice noted he feels this is quantitative. Mr. Glidden also agreed and stated it is a goal that is a good number to strive for. Mr. Glidden asked if they should say anything about market rate units or a moratorium on market rate units. He stated as much as you add those deed restricted units, if you have more market rate units all their efforts go out of the window because they have been washed out by more market rate units in the town. Chairman Rice noted that Mr. Glidden had an interesting point and stated this may be a wake up call for a lot of people interested in this subject. Mr. Needham expressed feeling stuck and that this may be the most reasonable idea they have had. Ms. Eaton did express that there are very few towns hitting the 10% in the entire state especially based upon deed restricted units. Chairman Rice stated the penalty for not reaching the goal isn’t that bad and so they deal with 1 8-30g application every couple of years. Mr. MacCormac stated he agrees that the realistic hope of achieving this is challenging and feels they should also consider what the penalty/downside is. Ms. Eaton asked Mr. Glidden having the affordable housing plan that gives the stipulation of the 4 year moratoriumhow does it apply. Mr. Glidden stated they can apply for that to get a relief, but it only puts a pause on the 8-30g applications so once the moratorium expires they are right back where they started; below 10% so subject to the appeal. Mr. Glidden stated in the 7 years he has been there the town has only gotten 1 8-30g application. Mr. Glidden stated there is not a lot of large track land available. Chairman Rice noted that everything they are talking about to increase the count of affordable units may be more disruptive to the town then accepting 1 or 2 8-30g applications over the next 10 years. Mr. Glidden stated unfortunately they are required to develop this plan but it is likely they may not meet the goals. Mr. Needham stated they need a plan with some goals but that doesn’t mean it will be perfect. Mr. MacCormac and ChairmanRice expressed the desire to go with Ms. Eatons numbers for the affordable unit goals. Ms. Eaton typed the goal into the comment box on Zoom.

• Mr. MacCormac made a motion to accept Ms. Eatons suggested goal as an official goal for the affordable housing plan. Chairman Rice seconded the motion.

• Mr. Glidden asked the Commissiontheir thoughts about ChairmanRice’s earlier suggestion to look into town owned properties. The Commission was in agreement to take it into consideration and make it a goal. Chairman Rice specified the wording for the two new goals as it will read on the plan; incrementally increase the number of affordable units by 1% over 5 years and here are some suggested means to achieve that goal. Chairman Rice noted there are already a couple of suggested means listed in the plan and read them out loud; small cities program/Tariffiville, Simsbury housing authority, multifamily housing, rehabilitation of distressed properties where the town would take it through the tax sale and they will add another one along the lines of reviewing town owned properties for suitable development of affordable housing units. Mr. Glidden asked if the Commission would want to add examples of town owned properties to the plan. Chairman Rice stated that would be fine. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated she feels that would make sense. Ms. Eaton asked Mr. Glidden if there was anything about tax credits in the plan. He stated there are tax credits for disabled and for senior citizens only. Chairman Rice asked the Commission to think about Mr. Needham’s thought about looking at a truly affordable house outside of 8-30g. Mr. Needham agreed and explained a house that for an average guy is easier to buy. Chairman Rice asked the Commission how do they given an incentive for a developer to do that, in which Mr. Needham responded stating, you have to lower the land cost same thing as 8-30g or have a zone that allows greater density. Mr. Needham expressed his desire for more actual affordable housing. He stated a developer would make money by building duplexes all over the place if you lower the land cost and increase the density his margins go up. Chairman rice asked what if they include duplex’s in the 8-30g application. Mr. Needham stated there is nothing stopping a developer from building any type of housing they want. Mr. Glidden stated under an 8-30g application they can build any type of housing that they desire. Mr. Needham stated he feels the community is looking for affordable housing outside of 8-30g. Chairman Rice stated for as long as he can remember Simsbury has always been known as an expensive place to live and now he feels that the social climate is changing where there is a lot of talk about inclusion and diversity and how that improves a community. Mr. Needham stated that has nothing to do with 8-30g but if they build more housing around 8-30g it will hurt them. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked to focus on the plan as there is still a listening forum to schedule. Mr. Needham stated this is what the Commission will end up listening to. Ms. Leavitt-Smith agreed but stated that is what they have been talking about over the last month; keeping focused on 8-30g. Ms. Leavitt-Smith expressed being disappointed in not hearing from the Board of Selectman. She further clarified the need to focus on how to keep the meeting on track and centered around 8-30g. Mr. Needham expressed that the first thing they have to do is to stop broadcasting to the public that there is a listening forum on an affordable housing plan as that is causing chaos and stated the Commission members should be specifying that it is only about 8-30g. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated she has been very specific that this is not about diversity and is only specific to 8-30g and agreed that the Commissioners should be explaining that to people who approach them. Mr. Needham stated that whatever information is given out needs to be clear that this is only about 8-30g. She also noted that she likes the idea of the duplex but doesn’t feel it goes in this plan. Chairman Rice stated they need to look at the draft plan again as there may be strategies on it that are not specific to 8-30g. Chairman Rice shared his screen with the Commissionand pulled up the page titled how Simsbury will meet the goals; specific to the Simsbury center and inclusionary zoning. Mr. Glidden stated inclusionary zoning would be 8-2I as you can set up a reg with a higher density with the understanding that it is for the creation of additional affordable housing units. Mr. Glidden stated he did not include this as a goal. He stated the town of New Cannon uses this as an option. He reported that in New Cannon, any zoning regulation application, 8-2I, that is made has a fee charged and that money goes into a trust that the town manages. He explained that New Cannon used that money to expand their senior housing facility. Ms. Leavitt-Smith noted the blue box on the side of this page cut off some of the wording regarding 8-2I but Mr. Glidden stated it is a formatting issue. He explained when the document is uploaded to the dropbox for some reason it changes the formatting.Mr. Glidden asked if the Commission would prefer to have the word document emailed to them separately, so they won’t have this formatting issue. The commission agreed. Chairman Rice continued to read the plan aloud. He asked if the small cities program/Tariffiville would fit the 8-30g regulations and contribute to the number of affordable units. Mr. Glidden said yes it can assist individuals in the lower percentiles to rehab their homes or go through HUD which provides downpayment assistance to people in the 80% median income. Chairman Rice asked about multi-family housing increasing the number of affordable units and Mr. Glidden explained that it would if they add something about them being deed restricted. Chairman Rice stated they can all be worded where they can count as contributing to the affordable housing unit count. Chairman Rice asked to add investigation of town owned properties to this list of how Simsbury will meet the affordable housing goals. He also stated he doesn’t want to get into the goals/objectives tonight and then further stated he isn’t sure they will need it anyways. He explained that the objective is to achieve the 10% and the goal is to get to have an incremental increase on the order of 1% over 5 years; 90 would be 1 point and the town needs to get to 910 and they are currently at 432. Chairman Rice then stated the goal in this plan does not achieve the requirement in this statute and it is not achievable so it would be a fallacy to put it down on paper. He further stated they can use Ms. Eatons proposal of the 1% over the next 5 years making this a 25 year plan. Chairman Rice asked Mr. Glidden to formalize what has been discussed tonight and include it in the draft for the next meeting. Chairman Rice asked if there has been any word from the Board of Selectman. Mr. Glidden stated no and reported the Board of Selectman did have a long meeting the last meeting so he isn’t sure if it got to the Planning Commissions correspondence and he doesn’t see it on their agenda for their next meeting. Mr. Glidden stated the Zoning Commission is also in agreement with the Planning Commissions plan of affordable housing and they are willing to do what is needed of them once the plan is completed.

• Chairman Rice asked Mr. Glidden for any correspondence. He denied receiving any correspondence.

• Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked for clarification on where the Commission is and where they are going for the next meeting. Chairman Rice explained that Mr. Glidden will make the changes to the edited version and will distribute the word document as well as put it in the drop box. He then suggested that the Commissioners read it and come prepared for next meeting to be the final session and the Commission will have developed their final draft for the listening forum. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked if there is a time limit on when the draft has to be released to the public before the listening forum. Mr. Glidden stated it has to be out a minimum of 24 hours before the listening forum. Mr. Glidden stated his goal is to get the Commission the word document with the changes either Friday or Saturday of this week. The Commission agreed. Chairman Rice reminded the Commission that they have had very little input from the Board of Selectman and have not shared it with the Zoning Commission so they may get some permanent feedback from them when it is published. Ms. Eaton brought up the need to discuss formatting the meeting since it will be virtual. She posted a tool in the chat for the Commission to review where it can be preloaded with ideas and people can vote on them. She suggested this could be used as a tool during the meeting. Chairman Rice did agree he has concerns on how to keep order and expressed it is much easier to do it in an in person forum. Mr. Glidden stated he has participated in several public hearings via zoom. He explained that the groundwork was laid at the beginning; they did a roll call and gave a certain amount of time for each person to speak. Mr. Glidden stated the other option is to follow the executive order and have any comments be emailed to Mr. Glidden ahead of time. He stated then the Commission would read the commentsout loud. Mr. Glidden stated so far he has experienced the forums to be orderly. Mr. Glidden told the Commission they have those two options to consider. Chairman Rice noted from the beginning he has agreed with Mr. Needham’s point of view, where they do not want this to become a dialogue, it should be a listening session. Chairman Rice noted written statements would be good, but he doesn’t want people to feel they were not heard. Mr. Glidden presented another option; to put an agenda up and any individuals wanting to speak have to register with Ms. Barkowski ahead of time. Mr. Glidden stated Ms. Barkowskicould be the moderator. Chairman Rice asked for any further comments. No further comments from the commission.

V. ADJOURNMENT Mr. MacCormac made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Ms. Leavitt-Smith seconded the motion. The meeting adjourned at 8:31pm.

MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, no abstentions. (6-0-0)

Respectfully Submitted,

Amanda Werboff
Commission Clerk