11/24/2020 Planning Commission Minutes
Subject to Approval
PLANNING COMMISSION-MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, November 24th, 2020
The public hearing was web-based on Zoom at https://zoom.us/j/2574297243
Meeting ID: 257 429 7243
I. CALL TO ORDER - Chairman Rice called the meeting to order at 7:03 pm.
1. Pledge of Allegiance
II. ROLL CALL
1. Appointment of Alternatives: Richard Cortes promoted to a full voting member
Present: Michael Glidden, William Rice, Erin Leavitt-Smith, Holly Beum, Craig MacCormac, Richard Cortes
Absent: David Blume, Mr. Needham and Julie Eaton
MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, no abstentions (6-0-0)
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of the TUESDAY November 10th, 2020 regular meetings
• Due to Mr. Needham's absence, Chairman Rice asked Ms. Beum to lead the review of the minutes. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated like 50 and 51 needed to be re-worded to say there are three types of affordable housing according to 8-30g. Mr. Glidden feels the original wording was fine and it gets the point across. The original wording will remain. Chairman Rice asked about a procedural question to Mr. Glidden; he asked if it is the Commission’s role to determine if what the members of the public said is recorded correctly or not. Mr. Glidden stated the way FOI reads, the meeting minutes are just a summary and so they are fine the way they are. Chairman Rice asked if the Commissioners are okay with discussing the comments later on rather than reading them during the approval of the minutes. Ms. Leavitt-Smith agreed with Chairman Rice stating she wasn’t making comments on the content and her only corrections were around typos or errors in the tense. Chairman Rice stated he is willing to let what is written stand. Line 62 Mr. MacCormac requested to add the wording “over the 5-year period”, after 90 affordable units in town. Ms. Beum noted on line 137 it should reflect the word lived instead of the word lives. Ms. Leavitt-Smith noted on line 134 the word social should be socioeconomic. Ms. Beum stated on line 166 it should state cap instead of camp. Mr. MacCormac reported line 226 there should be a change in the word atop to the word about. Ms. Leavitt-Smith reported on 269 it should say explore and define and on line 278 there should be an is between the words this and something. On line 450, Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated the word should reflect biased instead of basis. On line 507 it should say this is instead of cyst the, according to Ms. Leavitt-Smith.
• Chairman Rice made a motion to accept the minutes as amended. Ms. Leavitt-Smith seconded the motion.
MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, no abstentions (5-0-0).
IV. GENERAL COMMISSION BUSINESS
1. Discussion concerning Affordable Housing Plan Public Comments
• Chairman Rice asked the Commission members who would like to start. Ms. Leavitt-Smith began the discussion by stating she feels everyone had great thoughtful comments. She stated she would love to see some of the things that they want in a plan however, she feels their plan is very specific. She hopes they can keep the momentum going in some way even if it is separate from the Commissions Affordable Housing Plan. She stated that the comment about the character of the town in the POCD, although she knows it wasn’t their intent to make it about race that is how they are interpreting the statement. She asked if they should also be looking at the wording in the POCD. She reported feeling that is something they should think about. Mr. MacCormac responded to Ms. Leavitt-Smith stating there were a few people would made comments along those lines however, stated he feels people will always interpret things through their own lenses and stated as long as the intent put into it was good then it is good enough. Ms. Leavitt-Smith stated maybe putting the word of keeping the bucolic character would help. She stated they never intended for it to be made into an issue around race but understands that we are in a different time so to be sensitive to that maybe just putting the word bucolic would provide clarification. Mr. Cortes agreed that when the POCD was written those words were always mean to mean bucolic however, he further explained that the issue with those words is not the way that they are using them but the fact that to the non-white community those words are code for doing bad things. He stated even if they don’t mean it that way it will be interpreted that way so they should try to avoid using language as such. Mr. Cortes was clear that changing the words shouldn’t be a problem and stated that it is a hard-coded term and when they hear it they feel they are not wanted in the community. Mr. Cortes agreed he felt bothered when it was brought to their attention by members of the public and Ms. Leavitt-Smith agreed. Ms. Beum asked to pose a solution. She stated they didn’t just sit down and write the words, they talked about it extensively, and about the historical preservation and open space. Ms. Beum stated she always felt that because they were told not to be too specific it allowed the parts of the POCD to be open for interpretation. She reported feeling it would be helpful for them to provide different example as to what a sense of character means to them and be unambiguous as to what they mean. Mr. Glidden interjected. He stated when they discussed updating specific chapters of the POCD they took a vote and landed on the top subjects. He reported one of the topics was a sense of place. Mr. Glidden then read notes directly from that meeting when the vote took place. He reminded the Commission that this was already a topic they wanted to tackle later. Mr. Cortes asked if this term shows up in the Affordable Housing Plan. Mr. Glidden noted it does not as he tried to stay away from the word character and the word diversity throughout the plan.
• Chairman Rice asked the Commission members for their thoughts concerning the numerous comments from the public criticizing their target as being too low. Ms. Beum informed Chairman Rice she agreed with them. Mr. Cortes responded stating he doesn’t feel they understand how things work and what will have to happen. Chairman Rice noted he is torn between image and reality. He explained they settled on reality for their initial target put into the plan. He reported understanding that the public is not at the level of the details at this time. Ms. Beum strongly disagreed with Chairman Rice. She started by saying the Commission already knows that approximately 30% of the existing housing stock is already at the price threshold or below 8-30g. She further explained the elephant in the room that wasn’t discussed was what they define affordable housing to be outside of 8-30g. She stated with 8-30g they are talking about homes close to a quarter of a million dollars, close to $300,000. She reported any homes that they add now wouldn’t be considered affordable to anyone outside of someone in a prominent position who can afford it. Ms. Leavitt-Smith informed Ms. Beum that they did discuss the price, but Ms. Beum disagreed, stating they didn’t ask the participants what they consider affordable. Mr. Cortes chimed in stating with their plan they are stuck with the law but that doesn’t mean the town cannot have an additional policy about affordable housing which can incorporate 8-30g plus all of the other things they have been discussing to initiate real affordable housing. He stated a policy that unifies everything is needed. Chairman Rice thanked Mr. Cortes for bringing that up and stated that yesterday he sent an email to Maria Capriola and Eric Wellman asking what their expectation is for the affordable housing plan that they are deemed with developing. He stated Maria committed to setting up a meeting with herself, Eric, Mr. Glidden and Chairman Rice for the following week. Chairman Rice stated he has been leaning towards what Mr. Cortes mentioned, possible developing a policy to address the other issues. Ms. Beum mentioned feeling as though the last page of the plan shows how they plan to go outside of 8-30g. Ms. Leavitt-Smith asked about the idea of a task force to further divulge into this, which was brought up by many members of the public, since their plan is only going to be able to go so far. Chairman Rice noted maybe but he doesn’t feel this Commission has the right set of tools to come up with a plan to address people’s ideas and feels the town should probably involve professions. He stated the people who spoke were very genuine, positive and had the best interest of a lot of people. He noted this would be a big change in the town’s development. Mr. Cortes agreed that the meeting with Chairman Rice, Maria and Eric is needed and reported feeling as though they should be taking the lead on this or put a group together. He mentioned that the only thing that should be brought up to them is that when they start putting things into the works, they should actually talk to people who are minorities; people who have the actual experiences. Mr. MacCormac asked to go back to Chairman Rice’s earlier comment about the public feeing as though the plan didn’t go far enough. He stated he now understands that it might come from a place of not understanding the internal challenges but feels that perhaps they can talk about how they can get to the 10% whether it is looking at the existing housing stock or other ideas. Chairman Rice asked Mr. Glidden how many affordable units were added in the last 6 years. Mr. Glidden answered stating 24 in 6 years. Chairman Rice acknowledged this is going to take someone with a lot of horsepower to affect a change like this.
• Chairman Rice was happy to see there was no opposition to the plan. Ms. Leavitt-Smith noted the age range of people from the public. Ms. Beum noted there has always been a stigma that the town’s people do not want affordable housing but in her time in Simsbury she has never heard anyone come out against affordable housing. Chairman Rice countered Ms. Beum’s comment by stating that many people will feel like there is no evidence that there has been activity to change the situation. Mr. Glidden reminded the Commission that in the plan is to formulate an affordable housing ordinance which could be the dream while the plan follows the statutory requirements. Chairman Rice would like to take this up with Maria and Eric. The Commission felt as though that was a great idea. Ms. Leavitt-Smith mentioned feeling this plan could be just the beginning. Chairman Rice informed the Commission that someone suggested to him that whoever works on furthering this idea around affordable housing should be careful to draw a connection between affordability and race. Chairman Rice felt that to him they are separate. Mr. Cortes stated minorities tend to be in a lower socioeconomic class meaning they have less money and cannot afford what they would call exclusivity in Simsbury. Mr. Cortes stated race is related to poverty however, it doesn’t necessarily need to be talked about in those terms. Chairman Rice reported there are some people of color who can afford to live in Simsbury, and he doesn’t feel those people should be alienated. Mr. Cortes explained that people just want a chance to live in Simsbury. Mr. Glidden reminded the Commission that they are also bound by the Fair Housing Act so they really cannot talk about who lives in a structure, only about their income. Ms. Beum asked Mr. Glidden about the desire made to put a specific goal in the plan around diversity. He reminded Ms. Beum that nowhere in 8-30j does it deal with race mainly because this Commission is bound by the Fair Housing Act. He feels that mentioning the word diversity is a slippery slope and he would advise against it. Mr. MacCormac offered the suggestion that diversity could mean many different things outside of just race. Mr. Cortes stated they need to be careful not to marry the word diversity with affordable housing and suggested that they get a clear definition of what diversity means because that could create another trigger for people of color. Chairman Rice agreed and further stated the word diversity could be the cause of someone’s argument tor used to tear down someone else’s argument. Mr. Glidden informed the Commission that the word diversity is the same as the word character and could be left open to interpretation. He suggested use of the word be avoided. Mr. MacCormac feels that they are being too careful with the words being used and that it could backfire on the Commission. He further stated that they could use a word in the plan now that in 5 years from now be misinterpreted. Mr. Cortes interjected and stated that particular term, character of community, has been used in a negative way for over 40 years to silently say we don’t want anyone who isn’t like us in our community. Ms. Leavitt-Smith agreed. Mr. Cortes understood that they were not thinking in that way when they used it in the POCD because they do not encounter those types of things very often. Mr. MacCormac asked to respectfully disagree and stated he feels that the people who were on the Commission when it was used knew exactly how they meant it and they did not mean it the way people are choosing to interpret it. Mr. Cortes explained to Mr. MacCormac that although that may be true, what they were not aware of was what that terms means to people who are not in their community. He stated they were specifically trying to state that they want their community to remain bucolic and not to exclude any individuals or groups of people from residing in Simsbury but that might not be the message sent to people who are just reading this on paper. Mr. MacCormac asked how do they know that in 5 years someone might not say that the world bucolic could mean something different than what they intend for it to mean. Mr. Cortes stated this term specifically has been used over many years to denote and attempt to keep people out of a community. Ms. Beum noted that character and sense of place is an actual academic concept and none of it relates to race so she feels like clarifying it would solve the problem. She feels bucolic is too simplistic and that Simsbury offers more than just being bucolic. Ms. Leavitt-Smith reminded Ms. Beum that it was specifically the words the character of the town which offended people. Ms. Leavitt-Smith noted agreeing with Mr. Cortes that it bothered her that other people were bothered. She does not feel that the intent matters, what matters is how it was interpreted and that they should be sensitive to it. She explained to Mr. MacCormac that they are talking about now, what they can do now to change the wording to be more inclusive, not what will happen in 5 years.
• Chairman Rice asked for any additional comments about the speakers. Mr. Cortes provided his gratification on the two young men of color who spoke as they were well informed. Mr. MacCormac agreed and expressed his appreciation for the two young men as well. Ms. Leavitt-Smith reported that there was a suggesting hat the plan should address systemic racism but again she doesn’t feel that this is the place for that but reported feeling that can be discussed in whatever next steps are developed towards a policy or task force. Chairman Rice agreed that they have a fence around their plan due to 8-30g and stated he will be bringing that up to Maria and Eric and that if the town wants to go above and beyond that, that can be a separate effort. Mr. Glidden asked the Commission if a task force type of group is put together would the Commission think it should be under the Planning Commission or the Board of Selectman. Chairman Rice responded first stating he needs to think about that. Ms. Beum followed stating she feels it should fall under the Planning Commission. Mr. Cortes reported he feels it should fall under the Zoning Commission or that they should at least have a seat at the table. Chairman Rice noted that there is a land use facet to this.
2. Approval of 2021 Annual Schedule
• Chairman Rice offered two comments; the proposed schedule has both meetings listed for August 2021 but historically the month of August is off with this year having one meeting. He explained he likes the ability to be available in the month of August, but he suggested that they scratch 8/10/21 and keep 8/24/21. The Commission members agreed. His second comment was about the dates in December, the 7th and the 21st. He asked if it should read the 14th and the 28th. Mr. Glidden clarified that it should read the 14th and the 28th.
• There was a discussion about holding a meeting on 12/28/21 due to the holiday season as Ms. Leavitt-Smith pointed out that this year they decided to not meet on 12/22/20 due to a holiday. Chairman Rice was unaware of that and reported he still had both meetings for the month of December in his calendar. Mr. Glidden agreed that they had talked about not holding the meeting on 12/22/20. Chairman Rice requested that Mr. Glidden clarify that. Mr. Glidden followed up by informing the Commission that there is indeed a meeting scheduled for 12/22/20. Chairman Rice suggested that if it is a holiday and the Town Hall is closed then they can cancel the meeting but if Town Hall is open, they will hold the meeting.
• Chairman Rice made a motion that they accept the proposed Planning Commission regular meeting dates for the year 2021 as amended; the proposed 8/10/21 has been cancelled, the 8/24/21 meeting accepted, and the December meetings changed from the 7th and the 21st to the 14th and the 28th. Ms. Beum seconded the motion.
MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, no abstentions (5-0-0).
Mr. Glidden has no correspondence. He reported there is a potential 8-30g application coming for somewhere in the western portion of the town.
V. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Cortes made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Mr. MacCormac seconded the motion. The meeting adjourned at 8:15 pm.
MOTION: All in favor, no opposed, no abstentions. (6-0-0)
Respectfully Submitted,
Amanda Werboff
Commission Clerk